Intelligence can change if you are determined enough over a long period of time...
Intelligence can change if you are determined enough over a long period of time...
There may be some transfer affects going on here for me. Now that I have hit dual 9 n back comfortably (see my scores) I seem to be able to get to the highest levels in other working memory related tasks pretty quickly. It took me less than a week or so to pass PASAT comfortably. (I passed 3 PASAT the first time I tried and 4 PASAT the first time I tried). Single n back is too easy for me now. I took a professional Cambridge University of UK IQ test the other day and scored 142. In highschool my scores on standardized tests like the ACT (19/36) and SAT (975/1600) were awful. Of course, I used to have some serious OCD and ADD so I'm not a neuorotypical. When I took the GRE recently (which is basically like the SAT for graduate students) I scored 1540/1600. That is extremely high. I'm an unusual case though. I don't know of anyone else that has improved as much as I have on standardized tests. Anyhow, if you look at my scores I appear to be performing at a very high level now despite the fact that I did not perform well on IQ tests as a teenager. I'm in my 30s now. Thoughts?
Pacman | 1 year ago
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Nice score on the GRE, what's your major? Whats your single n back level? For some reason single position n back is the only n-back variant that actually works for me.
moeman | 1 year ago
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I got to 9 single-n-back within one or two days after having reached 9 dual-n-back. I stopped playing single-n-back on this site because I found it too easy. I can go try it again to see how long it takes me to get to 9 single-back if you want to use me as a case study :) I have an MBA. (I took the GRE instead of the GMAT) and it was accepted. I now work as the Director of International Sales for a well-known consumer electronics company. It is a pretty complex job.
I was always highly creative as a young child, but I could never pay attention to anything. I was also a very slow test taker. My processing speed still isn't the greatest due to my attention span, but I got 800 on the quantitive portion of the GRE and 740 on the verbal. According to some conversion charts this would put my IQ over 160 (deviation 15) which is far too high in my case!
Nonetheless, compare this high GRE score to the 370 I got in highshool on the SAT verbal and 600 on quant for a total around 970. When I took the SAT it was basically identical to the GRE except that the GRE verbal is harder. Some people think the SAT quant is harder than the GRE quant.
Remember, I took the SAT cold and wasn't sure what the heck I was trying to accomplish in life at the time. My OCD was bad and so was my ADD. I scored horribly on the ACT because I couldn't pay attention to anything I was reading. Ha.
I took the Ravens progressive matrices test as a kid and didn't do all that well on it either. Raven type tests are easy for me now.
In general, people consider me quite smart as man in my 30s (although I still get criticized for being in my own world and not listening sometimes). I've been taking medication for OCD now (for over a decade) which has made my life far better. I'm married, have a good job, and no longer feel like an idiot.
Pacman
I was always highly creative as a young child, but I could never pay attention to anything. I was also a very slow test taker. My processing speed still isn't the greatest due to my attention span, but I got 800 on the quantitive portion of the GRE and 740 on the verbal. According to some conversion charts this would put my IQ over 160 (deviation 15) which is far too high in my case!
Nonetheless, compare this high GRE score to the 370 I got in highshool on the SAT verbal and 600 on quant for a total around 970. When I took the SAT it was basically identical to the GRE except that the GRE verbal is harder. Some people think the SAT quant is harder than the GRE quant.
Remember, I took the SAT cold and wasn't sure what the heck I was trying to accomplish in life at the time. My OCD was bad and so was my ADD. I scored horribly on the ACT because I couldn't pay attention to anything I was reading. Ha.
I took the Ravens progressive matrices test as a kid and didn't do all that well on it either. Raven type tests are easy for me now.
In general, people consider me quite smart as man in my 30s (although I still get criticized for being in my own world and not listening sometimes). I've been taking medication for OCD now (for over a decade) which has made my life far better. I'm married, have a good job, and no longer feel like an idiot.
Pacman
Pacman | 1 year ago
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moeman | 1 year ago
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Pacman | 1 year ago
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One more thing: I DO NOT CREDIT dual-n-back for all my gains. No way. A big part of my improvement has to do with dealing with OCD/ADD and maturing as a person. Moreover, I'm not really a neurotypical. The only think I know for sure about dual-n-back is that I improved from 3 dual-n-back to 9 dual-n-back in a few months. After that, conquering other working memory tasks on this site is much easier (including PASAT). I still CANNOT do really difficult things like multiply 396 x 274 in my head within a few seconds. It would take me a minute or so to do.
Pacman | 1 year ago
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Multiplying that particular sum in a minute is pretty darn impressive. It would take me about 5-10 min to multiply that sum. The most I've done is two six digit numbers ie 678,489 x 837,373 on a few occasions but don't do it often because it takes a very long time to do.
moeman | 1 year ago
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396x274 is quite easy:
4x275 = 2x550 = 1100
4x274 = 1100 - 4 = 1096
396x274 = 109600 - 1096 = 108504
But multiplying those six digit numbers ... that sounds impressive :-)
4x275 = 2x550 = 1100
4x274 = 1100 - 4 = 1096
396x274 = 109600 - 1096 = 108504
But multiplying those six digit numbers ... that sounds impressive :-)
? | 1 year ago
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? | 1 year ago
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Pacman | 1 year ago
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I try to do the math in my head like I am writing on a chalkboard (in much the same way that Moeman describes). I avoid shortcuts like the ones above intentionally.
Pacman | 1 year ago
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Nice system you got there. My way is simply the way one would perform the calculation on a sheet of paper.
moeman | 1 year ago
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ONE MORE THING: I took the GRE BEFORE I ever learned about dual-n-back. However, I have been practicing working memory tasks off on on for several years.
Pacman | 1 year ago
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Momeman, if you want to, try this test and see how many you get right (including how long it takes). I try to do it without extreme shortcuts (althouth basic shortcuts I use):
http://www.iq-tests-for-the-high-range.com/mental_arithmetic/
http://www.iq-tests-for-the-high-range.com/mental_arithmetic/
Pacman | 1 year ago
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I actually did one of Paul's mental arithmetic tests a few years ago and got a perfect score (nothing to brag about as the problems aren't too difficult) but didn't time it.
With mental arithmetic I try to avoid shortcuts in order to maximize the load on working memory/fluid intelligence etc. The only benefits that I've noticed from mental arithmetic were temporary increases in reading speed which is why I don't do much arithmetic anymore.
With mental arithmetic I try to avoid shortcuts in order to maximize the load on working memory/fluid intelligence etc. The only benefits that I've noticed from mental arithmetic were temporary increases in reading speed which is why I don't do much arithmetic anymore.
moeman | 1 year ago
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Moeman, if you don't mind me asking (feel free to ignore my question if you want):
1) How far did you get on single-n-back?
2) Dual-n-back
3) PASAT
4) How long did it take you to get as far as you did?
5) What is your PROFESSIONALLY administered IQ (or comparable standardized test) score?
1) How far did you get on single-n-back?
2) Dual-n-back
3) PASAT
4) How long did it take you to get as far as you did?
5) What is your PROFESSIONALLY administered IQ (or comparable standardized test) score?
Pacman | 1 year ago
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1)13 back
2)D10B
3)9
4)D10B 7 months (D9B 3 months), I started single after maxing out my dnb, triple, quad levels. 13 back in single was reached either the first or second day. PASAT 8 was reached in a month and posting passing scores at PASAT 8 wasn't possible without adding aerobic exercise to my training program.
5)On the Woodcock Johnson III test of achievement I scored above grade level 18 on every subtest (3 verbal, 3 math tests). No percentiles were given, the report just said above average for every subtest (I guess that means my IQ is somewhere north of 115). The test was really easy and probably doesn't have a high ceiling for someone my age (28 yrs).
After months of playing single n back and engaging in other brain boosting activities my score on the JCTI (best test of fluid intelligence on the net) went up from 144 to a max of 157 (There may be a significant test-retest effect in there not sure).
My full scale IQ in my opinion is probably around 130 (My general knowledge is low).
2)D10B
3)9
4)D10B 7 months (D9B 3 months), I started single after maxing out my dnb, triple, quad levels. 13 back in single was reached either the first or second day. PASAT 8 was reached in a month and posting passing scores at PASAT 8 wasn't possible without adding aerobic exercise to my training program.
5)On the Woodcock Johnson III test of achievement I scored above grade level 18 on every subtest (3 verbal, 3 math tests). No percentiles were given, the report just said above average for every subtest (I guess that means my IQ is somewhere north of 115). The test was really easy and probably doesn't have a high ceiling for someone my age (28 yrs).
After months of playing single n back and engaging in other brain boosting activities my score on the JCTI (best test of fluid intelligence on the net) went up from 144 to a max of 157 (There may be a significant test-retest effect in there not sure).
My full scale IQ in my opinion is probably around 130 (My general knowledge is low).
moeman | 1 year ago
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