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No gain on IQ test
Darren | 7 years ago Reply Link me
parent
? | 10 months ago Reply
When you train with dnb you should consider those factors, I guess you have thought about many of them, some are obvious and some perhaps less obvious:

- Do you sleep enough during training?
- Do you train at night when youre more tired or at day when youre probably more awake and focused?
- How is your mood, depressed, sad, angry, stress or happy, relaxed etc during training?
- Do you train with enthusiasm, because you MUST train, because you want to kill time, do you like or even hate it, is it boring as hell or funny, do you feel like "WHEN the he** am I finally done with this?!"

- What about your diet, healthy or less healthy, do you get enough vitamins, minerals, fatty-acids etc?
- and of course: How MUCH do you train?
In weekends, every day, HOW long, how often?
- Do you train in a room with fresh air and NO distractions?

Its recommended to train 30-45 minutes EACH day from Monday to Friday and then you can break down at weekends, but I see you train quite much, so its kinda weird.

Sleep can have a significant effect on your working memory improvement and little sleep could very possibly weaken your whole memory gain.

But of course the gain of 40% in fluid intelligence is very probably a huge overestimate as you may think. But Im convinced the dnb can improve the IQ, at least attention, memory, perhaps reasoning, learning, concentration. The question is how much cause its not sure and of course if the effects will last and if so for how long.
Oye89 | 7 years ago Reply
18336206670
? | 2 years ago Reply
No gain on IQ test
A while back I promised to do dual n back for a period of time, take an iq test and then report my findings.

I've had pretty unimpressive findings. I've used Brain Workshop 4.4 for about four months, with about a half-hours use 4-6 days a week. I used Denmark IQ test and scored a 112 and after dnb I scored a 110.

My max dnb level was 11. Hours and hours and no gain in iq.

Null results. What have your findings been?
Darren | 7 years ago Reply
Here is my take on it. Exercises like these can increase working memory capacity. IQ tests do not strictly test working memory capacity, or even fluid intelligence. To a large extent, they test a number of acquirable skills.

These skills are easier to acquire, and one is more likely to acquire them in the course of ones life, if one has a larger rather than smaller working memory. This causes the strong correlation between "intelligence"--that is IQ test scores--and working memory capacity, which in most people, does not change substantially after maturity.

So Darren should have an easier time of it learning new things and developing new skills, now that he's perhaps got a stronger working memory. But developing a stronger working memory doesn't necessarily all by itself cause much development of the many and diverse skills that an IQ test measures.
? | 7 years ago Reply
by skills, I mean things like reasoning too, in addition to silly IQ test tasks. Reasoning is, so far as I can tell, can be developed and enhanced over time.
? | 7 years ago Reply
i have iq 87. i get to level 16. took only one day. you stupider than me.
? | 7 years ago Reply
Just a note for the illogical ninnies: arguments stemming from incredulity is a logical fallacy.

IOW: you have to take what people say at face value in a forum for reasoned discussion to take place.
? | 7 years ago Reply
"illogical ninnies"

lol

ad hominem: Latin for "to the man." An arguer who uses ad hominems attacks the person instead of the argument. Whenever an arguer cannot defend his position with evidence, facts or reason, he or she may resort to attacking an opponent either through: labeling, straw man arguments, name calling, offensive remarks and anger.
? | 7 years ago Reply
.
? | 4 years ago Reply
You obviously couldn't grasp that the basis of the fellow's argument wasn't on an ad hominem, which therefore means yours is based on a tu quoque and a red herring!

You should have stopped before you started.
? | 7 years ago Reply
Incredulity is the destination, not the journey, i.e. incredulity based on obvious logical arguments is, of course, rational.

My brother picked his nose and his IQ went from 90 to 85.

Does thou believeth, or are you incredulous?
? | 7 years ago Reply
Your max dual-n-back is 11 and you have an IQ between 110-112. That seems interesting. My IQ is comparatively much higher, however, I certainly cannot match your dual-n-back level.

I recommend Brain Workshop, it has variants of dual-n-back, that in my subjective opinion, are more effective.

These variants are diverse and can be found in http://brainworkshop.sourceforge.net using Brain Workshop. The version displayed here is 4.7, which is not the most up to date version. The most up to date version can be found at http://brainworkshop.sourceforge.net/misc/. There is also an open-access discussion group concerning the implications and development of brain training and other.

Discussion group: http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training


Possible factors that may influence the benefits of training:
1. Time
2. Motivation (How much effort are you exerting? Are you maintaining a high amount of effort throughout your sessions?)
3. External things that occur in daily that may affect your internal well-being.
4. Many more.

Thanks,

whatfitsinspace
whatfitsinspace | 7 years ago Reply
For one with a "comparatively much higher" IQ, you haven't noticed that the above has used BW.

Heh...
? | 7 years ago Reply
Perhaps I need to work on my reading comprehension, lol.

Thanks,

whatfitsinspace

P.S - Darren, elaborate a little more on your details (e.g. age, diet, exercise, etc = susceptibility working memory training) and your training regime in general. Let's poke some holes. Also, have you noticed any subjective benefits through training?
whatfitsinspace | 7 years ago Reply
Uh what is "susceptibility to working memory training?" And age and diet seem fairly irrelevant things to consider. I’m young, not over 50 or a child.

Usually at night around 5-7 pm on week days is when I would do dnb.

I cant say I've noticed any benefits. My ability to reason is all the same.

Also I started out wanting to experiment with dnb myself and I've not found it to be helpful, contrary to what researchers claim.
Darren | 7 years ago Reply
Consider phosphatidylserine and ALCA, ALCAR, and a lipoic acid.

I keep myself challenged, healthy, and have noticed a high level of growth.

I use dual, triple and quintuple n-back on difficult settings.
? | 7 years ago Reply
"And age and diet seem fairly irrelevant things to consider."

lol
? | 7 years ago Reply
Wow, that must be depressing!
? | 7 years ago Reply
Yeah it really is. How can I expect to live a productive crime-free/mischief free life with such an iq.

No joke the gov. should spend some money trying to improve iq of its citizens. So much of the worlds dysfunction would disappear if people were smarter. I dont care how unpc it is, low iq is the source of the world problems.
Darren | 7 years ago Reply
if this was satire man you are hilarious
? | 7 years ago Reply
Don't worry. Your IQ would be about the average for a society free of crime. 80-90 is the danger zone for criminal behavior.
? | 7 years ago Reply
Question mark, you seem to have used dnb extensively. What are your results?
Darren | 7 years ago Reply
Anyone else?
Darren | 7 years ago Reply
that IQ test has anything to do with intelligence is just an assumption. if you want to raise your score on IQ test, what do you do? practice IQ tests. so the question is, what is more useful to you: cleverly figuring out some silly patterns on an IQ test, or being able to remember your thought process (or something you are listening to/reading) very quickly and very far back?
? | 7 years ago Reply
Why do you want to raise your iq?
? | 7 years ago Reply
Why not? I don’t have any goals in mind if that is what you're asking. Despite my mediocre iq I’ve done okay so far in school/college. I don’t think I need to explain to much on why being smarter is better.

Heres another question, what is taking these people at the University of Michigan so long to produce more research on their program. You would think that if someone actually found a legitimate way to increase IQ people would be eager to confirm their studies.
Darren | 7 years ago Reply
You're right, I was refering to your goals:

Since you haven't gained any iq-transfer from dnb, you've used your intelligence to establish that doing dnb to "gain a higher iq because being smarter is better" is likely the least effective way to spend your time.

Your time would obviously be better spent doing something concrete directed towards achieving the specific reason YOU want to be smarter/have a higher iq.
? | 7 years ago Reply
Huh? I dont have any specific reason. There are no goals. I just want to be smarter, thats it...
Darren | 7 years ago Reply
I want to be smarter for the sake of being smarter.
Darren | 7 years ago Reply
Most people have that "want". Whether it's to be smarter, prettier, more socially desirable, faster or stronger; you'll generally find that most people are unsatisfied with their human condition. Some of these wants are attainable, some of them are not. This conclusion is relative to the individuals circumstances. Sometimes, if wants are not satisfied through a direct means they can may be satisfied through an indirect compensatory means. Probably don't need to elaborate using examples.

You need to be honest with yourself. You currently sound like a girl in a pet store screaming to her mummy, "I want it, I want it, I want the puppy", for no specific reason and demonstrating no ability to look after it in the way it is necessary for that cute mammal to maintain good health. There is currently no 'easy' accessible means of becoming smarter. Technology is getting better, however this is what is available at this time. There is plenty of evidence that suggests that cognitive training can improve working memory (closely associated to g), but it takes hard work and discipline over the long term. These changes are manifested through the means of neuroplasticity. So, you either want to feed the puppy and look after it so it lead a good life or you can leave it at the pet store for someone else that is likely to give it the attention that it deserves. So, you spent an allotted amount of time on a particular task expecting a result that never came. Does that mean that you haven't experienced any benefits? No, obviously not. Does that mean you undertook the training in the best way? No, it does not.

Finally, Darren you still haven't explained how you were able to get to 10-n-back with an IQ of 110. Please explain. Chunking?
whatfitsinspace | 7 years ago Reply
Get off your pedestal, chum. You aren't that great to be lecturing other people.

Really... where do these people come from?
? | 7 years ago Reply
Some people say from out-of-space. I, on the other hand, tend to agree with this view. I'm gathering however that your question was of a rhetorical nature.

By the way, if I am on a pedestal it isn't very high off the ground, and there are many folk that reach greater heights. If you are unhappy with my analogy perhaps you can attempt to provide a more informative and or helpful approach to Darren's problem. I think this may be a better option than instead lowering yourself to the point where you expect to develop an accurate perception of my self with a water pistol rather than a shotgun (disperses bullets in more than one direction to increase the possibility hitting the target = encapsulating the essence of a person involves gnawing on more than one characteristic to develop a more accurate assumption about a person).


"Get off your pedestal, chum. You aren't that great to be lecturing other people"

"Really... where do these people come from?"

In no way shape or form have I foolishly attempted to put you (?) or Darren in a small box, like you have just done to me now. You have put it upon yourself to develop a judgment about myself, while being mostly ignorant about everything there is to do with me. This is very silly indeed. Note that I have not formed an opinion about you (what a completely ridiculous thing to do), albeit, documented your past behaviour. The best thing for you to do is to seek a constructive way to help Darren, not to belittle my attempts at trying to to so.
whatfitsinspace | 7 years ago Reply
You're basically telling Darren to forget about his prerogative to obtain a higher IQ and "just do what it is you do" (paraphrasing). That's good and well, but the fact of the matter is a higher IQ brings with it a host of positive benefits. You haven't made a very convincing case that Darren (or anyone) should drop the baton, even if DNB doesn't work.

It's always worth one's trouble to increase one's IQ, whether that be knowledge (what most people increase) or fluid ability (what might be going on with DNB training).

So, you see, this wasn't a "personal judgment", but an observation on your form of reasoning on futility. Why be here if you're going to discourage others? There's a world of difference between doing that and pointing out that DNB probably doesn't work.
? | 7 years ago Reply
high IQ is correlated with a host of positive benefits. It does not, especially if acquired later in life, necessarily cause any of them.

Like someone back there said, getting really good at some silly test doesn't seem to me as useful as a lot of other things, some of which probably do enhance cognition and functional intelligence
? | 7 years ago Reply
You realize that IQ is a fairly static feature of an individual. I can change but it changes very slowly and rarely do individuals score even .5 standard deviation away from their last IQ test. Training your brain and increasing your IQ are not the same.
? | 7 years ago Reply
Heh. I've taken tests. I've easily scored more than 2sd between tests. Not that strange, really.
? | 7 years ago Reply
I apologize for the misconception but where exactly have I said or at the very least alluded to the suggestion that Darren should drop his training? I encourage the polar opposite to this.

Please explain.
whatfitsinspace | 7 years ago Reply
You assume that Darren hasn't put in the needed effort to see gains in IQ; however, it is apparent that Darren has. Therefore, your lecturing him about this seems to be a pure waste of time.
? | 7 years ago Reply
If you perceive it as a lecture, that is your misinterpretation and not evidence of my possible disregard. I was exploring other avenues that may account for Darren's lack of progress, that is all.

On another note, I'd rather not continue this. This _is_ a waste of time and thus, my last response.

Good luck Darren, keep up the training!

whatfitsinspace
whatfitsinspace | 7 years ago Reply
lolol
? | 7 years ago Reply
amazing
? | 7 years ago Reply
nah
? | 7 years ago Reply

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