Dual n-Back Strategies
xboa721 | 2 years ago
Reply
Having taken memory programs in the past two things occurred to me as I just start to get into the n-Back games.
I was wondering how to improve my performance.
After only a couple of sessions I have two distinct models and a kind of intuitive "your brain knows the answer, if only you can get your thinking out of it".
However the challenge there is that the focused attention of the task requires the so-called 'left brain' to be kept busy working.
The models:
First, the square appears somewhere in a 3x3 grid. Numbered 1-2-3 , 4-5-6 , 7-8-9 gives the square reference. Obviously #5 never appears (in this game) however most Western (particularly) societies have an established training for recognising a simple 3x3, sequentially numbered grid.
Then as the game progresses, a sequence may be represented by C1,G7,C9 (match 2-back audio), K3, T4, K1 (match 2-back audio), etc..
Someone like Kevin Trudeau from the Mega-Memory fame might suggest creating a name of an animal or object that starts with the consonant voiced.
A fairly well accepted thought on the matter suggests our brains think in images. And we tend to remember (specifically) unique actions.
So as the game progresses, system two is to visualise the consonant letter superimposed on the white square. Then the amount of information to 'remember' is reduced to a single image and the left brain is kept busy doing the comparison.
K-- T-- --C --- --K --T
--- --- --- --- --- ---
--- --- --- G-- --- ---
which gives a position match on the second grid for a one-back or an audio match on a four-back from the 6th frame.
The obvious trouble is that after a few rounds these models seem to fall short because there is nothing new and the left brain gets 'bored'
The model develops: So construct a cat in square one for "Ca1" and then get the cat to do something funny while a Kangaroo appears in position 9 "Ka9" and hops along to a Koala in position 7 "Ka7" and then while you're thinking the Koala is getting along with the Kangaroo because it's a 1-back all of a sudden a Giraffe pokes it's head through square 6 and then bends down to nibble on the ear of a Goat in position 3.
So a game of mental gymnastics and not wasting time. What can you really get done in 3 seconds?
Regardless of my left-brain strategies, the more I play the game I notice the tendency to *feel* the right answer.
Besides the repetition rate of 3 seconds as described by the initial research is a little too fast at least initially to do much 'thinking' in between times.
I'm curious to know.. how is the game progressing for you and what tips have you come up with to help your performance?
p.s. cheers for the game.. even after playing it a short while I noticed an immediate improvement in what I might call "musical flexibility".
Perhaps you'd like to share? And typically it seems that small improvements and changes in other areas of life, aren't actually so insignificant. What has happened for you so far?
Cheers!
I was wondering how to improve my performance.
After only a couple of sessions I have two distinct models and a kind of intuitive "your brain knows the answer, if only you can get your thinking out of it".
However the challenge there is that the focused attention of the task requires the so-called 'left brain' to be kept busy working.
The models:
First, the square appears somewhere in a 3x3 grid. Numbered 1-2-3 , 4-5-6 , 7-8-9 gives the square reference. Obviously #5 never appears (in this game) however most Western (particularly) societies have an established training for recognising a simple 3x3, sequentially numbered grid.
Then as the game progresses, a sequence may be represented by C1,G7,C9 (match 2-back audio), K3, T4, K1 (match 2-back audio), etc..
Someone like Kevin Trudeau from the Mega-Memory fame might suggest creating a name of an animal or object that starts with the consonant voiced.
A fairly well accepted thought on the matter suggests our brains think in images. And we tend to remember (specifically) unique actions.
So as the game progresses, system two is to visualise the consonant letter superimposed on the white square. Then the amount of information to 'remember' is reduced to a single image and the left brain is kept busy doing the comparison.
K-- T-- --C --- --K --T
--- --- --- --- --- ---
--- --- --- G-- --- ---
which gives a position match on the second grid for a one-back or an audio match on a four-back from the 6th frame.
The obvious trouble is that after a few rounds these models seem to fall short because there is nothing new and the left brain gets 'bored'
The model develops: So construct a cat in square one for "Ca1" and then get the cat to do something funny while a Kangaroo appears in position 9 "Ka9" and hops along to a Koala in position 7 "Ka7" and then while you're thinking the Koala is getting along with the Kangaroo because it's a 1-back all of a sudden a Giraffe pokes it's head through square 6 and then bends down to nibble on the ear of a Goat in position 3.
So a game of mental gymnastics and not wasting time. What can you really get done in 3 seconds?
Regardless of my left-brain strategies, the more I play the game I notice the tendency to *feel* the right answer.
Besides the repetition rate of 3 seconds as described by the initial research is a little too fast at least initially to do much 'thinking' in between times.
I'm curious to know.. how is the game progressing for you and what tips have you come up with to help your performance?
p.s. cheers for the game.. even after playing it a short while I noticed an immediate improvement in what I might call "musical flexibility".
Perhaps you'd like to share? And typically it seems that small improvements and changes in other areas of life, aren't actually so insignificant. What has happened for you so far?
Cheers!
xboa721 | 2 years ago
Reply
Using some strategies and techniques are not the aim of “n-back” training.You should give your mind a chance to evaluate in it's own way during the game.
Using some techniques such as creating some stories, chunking etc. will not enable your mind to go with only his knowing way and to breaks his own limits.
I'm not really experienced while I have done 13 session. I have been struggling with 5'th level since yesterday. When I'm trying to remember blocks position really hard then I'm getting wore result, but if I clear my mind and 'just let it go' I'm doing it easier, and remembering is doing automatically, whiteout my interference.
Best Regards,
M.K.
Using some techniques such as creating some stories, chunking etc. will not enable your mind to go with only his knowing way and to breaks his own limits.
I'm not really experienced while I have done 13 session. I have been struggling with 5'th level since yesterday. When I'm trying to remember blocks position really hard then I'm getting wore result, but if I clear my mind and 'just let it go' I'm doing it easier, and remembering is doing automatically, whiteout my interference.
Best Regards,
M.K.
? | 2 years ago
Reply
? | 2 years ago
Reply
stupidkid | 2 years ago
Reply
but doesn't using memorizing techniques increase one's working memory?
regardless, i think its working for me. I began n-back training in january. 1 week into it, i took an IQ test and received 127. I took another one 1 month ago and scored 141.
Between this period I did not take any IQ tests. My max Dual back was 18. I really felt a sharpening of my cognitive abilities. I was able to better focus, and learn new information faster than before. Also, I was able to memorize information subconsciously without concentrating.
However, since i've been using methods to play the game, i probably did not gain any benefit from my months of training. Thus, the changes that I have personally witnessed have all been due to the placebo effect. Is that even possible?
But then again, could it also be that the act of figuring out new methods actually provides the benefits that are sought from playing this game?
regardless, i think its working for me. I began n-back training in january. 1 week into it, i took an IQ test and received 127. I took another one 1 month ago and scored 141.
Between this period I did not take any IQ tests. My max Dual back was 18. I really felt a sharpening of my cognitive abilities. I was able to better focus, and learn new information faster than before. Also, I was able to memorize information subconsciously without concentrating.
However, since i've been using methods to play the game, i probably did not gain any benefit from my months of training. Thus, the changes that I have personally witnessed have all been due to the placebo effect. Is that even possible?
But then again, could it also be that the act of figuring out new methods actually provides the benefits that are sought from playing this game?
stupidkid | 2 years ago
Reply
if you use those methods, you will lose crucial benefit; transfer of the ability.
getting high scores on Dual n-Back with tricks? what is the meaning of doing that? just for self-satisfaction?
getting high scores on Dual n-Back with tricks? what is the meaning of doing that? just for self-satisfaction?
? | 2 years ago
Reply
stupidkid | 2 years ago
Reply
? | 2 years ago
Reply
memorize!
i.e. memorize chunks of 3, 4,5,6, etc...
try and see if you see a sudden leap in your dual-n-back scores.
please let me know if you do or don't. Another person's own experience might help me determine for myself if playing the game in this fashion still increases one's IQ.
i.e. memorize chunks of 3, 4,5,6, etc...
try and see if you see a sudden leap in your dual-n-back scores.
please let me know if you do or don't. Another person's own experience might help me determine for myself if playing the game in this fashion still increases one's IQ.
stupidkid | 2 years ago
Reply
Ok. Well.. I can dual 9-back without any strategy.
Anyway, I cannot clearly understand your 'fullproof method'. Can anyone explain this to me?
Anyway, I cannot clearly understand your 'fullproof method'. Can anyone explain this to me?
? | 2 years ago
Reply
Other people probably have their own methods.
What I do is the following. Say we are on 9-back. Basically I memorize the first 9 sounds and images using any memorization technique. I use chunking, so I memorize either 3/3/3, 5/4/, or 6/3 (depending on which pattern is simpler given the random sounds). Then on the next set of 9 sounds and images, I memorize the new set in the same fashion, while at the same time backtrack to check to see if they match the 1st block of 9 memorized sounds and images. Then repeat till done.
I guess this is considered cheating and doesn't help. But I don't see how you can play the game without concentrating, and how doing it without cheating helps your working memory.
However, I'd like to note that it isn't easy to memorize a set of sounds & images, while backtracking to see if the sounds and images match that of the previous set. This gets especially difficult when memorizing blocks of around 13-15. So thus, maybe what I am doing still helps somewhat with my memory?
Anyways, can anyone explain to me the CORRECT way to play the game? Do you guys try to remember the sounds and images, or do you just let your mind wander and hope that it recalls the information subconsciously? If you don't try to remember the images and sounds then how does that help your working memory?
What I do is the following. Say we are on 9-back. Basically I memorize the first 9 sounds and images using any memorization technique. I use chunking, so I memorize either 3/3/3, 5/4/, or 6/3 (depending on which pattern is simpler given the random sounds). Then on the next set of 9 sounds and images, I memorize the new set in the same fashion, while at the same time backtrack to check to see if they match the 1st block of 9 memorized sounds and images. Then repeat till done.
I guess this is considered cheating and doesn't help. But I don't see how you can play the game without concentrating, and how doing it without cheating helps your working memory.
However, I'd like to note that it isn't easy to memorize a set of sounds & images, while backtracking to see if the sounds and images match that of the previous set. This gets especially difficult when memorizing blocks of around 13-15. So thus, maybe what I am doing still helps somewhat with my memory?
Anyways, can anyone explain to me the CORRECT way to play the game? Do you guys try to remember the sounds and images, or do you just let your mind wander and hope that it recalls the information subconsciously? If you don't try to remember the images and sounds then how does that help your working memory?
stupidkid | 2 years ago
Reply
There is a way to use both chunking and intuition - if something drops out of your conscious memory, consult your intuition.
I find that playing the game with conscious memorising strategies helps me then focus on other work while using intuitive feel does not give me a boost in focus.
I think that one of Jaeggi's research students did a poster on the relative benefits of conscious vs unconscious play to memory enhancement - apparently, it makes no difference (from what I remember).
I find that playing the game with conscious memorising strategies helps me then focus on other work while using intuitive feel does not give me a boost in focus.
I think that one of Jaeggi's research students did a poster on the relative benefits of conscious vs unconscious play to memory enhancement - apparently, it makes no difference (from what I remember).
cevapcici | 2 years ago
Reply
all tasks have rule based (dnb: conscious --> strategies/rehearsal) and information-integration (dnb: unconscious --> visceral button pushing) components in varying weights
successful performance on any given task implies the performer has balanced use of these two categorization methods (within his/her ability, of course) to match the task's demands
dnb performance improvement does not correlate with transfer effects, it appears, only dnb experience.
and i wonder if RAPM might recruit info-int categorization, especially if timed...
is a prerequisite to seeing order in chaos (gf) being able to verbally communicate it?
successful performance on any given task implies the performer has balanced use of these two categorization methods (within his/her ability, of course) to match the task's demands
dnb performance improvement does not correlate with transfer effects, it appears, only dnb experience.
and i wonder if RAPM might recruit info-int categorization, especially if timed...
is a prerequisite to seeing order in chaos (gf) being able to verbally communicate it?
medicalstudent | 1 year ago
Reply
"dnb performance improvement does not correlate with transfer effects, it appears, only dnb experience."
So that's why you seem to favor n-variation above n-increase, correct?
Do you use random settings in tnb?
So that's why you seem to favor n-variation above n-increase, correct?
Do you use random settings in tnb?
bloch | 1 year ago
Reply
both are worth monitoring and improving (variation and increase), although you are correct in my preference.
not currently, but did initially (year ago) when familiarizing myself with the controls.
not currently, but did initially (year ago) when familiarizing myself with the controls.
medicalstudent | 1 year ago
Reply
stupidkid | 1 year ago
Reply
medicalstudent | 1 year ago
Reply
does it matter? the guy seems to assume psychology is rigorous, and you can make conclusions from it. you can't.
? | 1 year ago
Reply
not really doesn't really matter. just fun to see a fellow medical student on this forum... is all...
? | 1 year ago
Reply
well hey, if you're a medical student you should take this opportunity to post like you're an authority on some subject you know nothing about too
? | 1 year ago
Reply
rule number one: think for yourself.
this means always being skeptical, always question
respect; you'll go far, anonymous.
this means always being skeptical, always question
respect; you'll go far, anonymous.
medicalstudent | 1 year ago
Reply
