Picracetam Suggestions
Picracetam Suggestions
I'd like to try out piracetam or aniracetam along with the recommended choline that one is supposed to take with it. After having scoured the web, I have no idea where would be the best site to buy from.
Anyone who has ideas on where to buy from, I'd like to hear it. Any descriptions of one's experience with it would be interesting as well.
Anyone who has ideas on where to buy from, I'd like to hear it. Any descriptions of one's experience with it would be interesting as well.
milestones | 9 months ago
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piracetam from Relentless Improvement, CDP choline (jarrow formulas) from iherb. Both are trustworthy.. you also could ask around on imminst
? | 9 months ago
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Thanks, I've had a look through the forums; some claim it works perfectly, others saying it doesn't
do anything (even in combination with choline).
From what I've read it seems those who are most mentally active -- i.e. students -- are those who perceive a benefit the most. People who are looking for a miracle cure seem the most disappointed. I imagine the effects are subtle but powerful over time.
I think (just a guess) it would probably be a good thing to take in addition to brain exercises such as the dual n back and puzzles, perhaps working to aggrandize some of the supposed results of the studies on piracetam that have been done as far back at the 60's.
I'd say that the effects of extensive training on n-back are subtle but also powerful from tasks ranging banal to abstruse. I'd be interested in the combination of training with effects of the nootropics to see what's goes on.
do anything (even in combination with choline).
From what I've read it seems those who are most mentally active -- i.e. students -- are those who perceive a benefit the most. People who are looking for a miracle cure seem the most disappointed. I imagine the effects are subtle but powerful over time.
I think (just a guess) it would probably be a good thing to take in addition to brain exercises such as the dual n back and puzzles, perhaps working to aggrandize some of the supposed results of the studies on piracetam that have been done as far back at the 60's.
I'd say that the effects of extensive training on n-back are subtle but also powerful from tasks ranging banal to abstruse. I'd be interested in the combination of training with effects of the nootropics to see what's goes on.
milestones | 9 months ago
Reply
For obvious reasons, I am posting anonymously. I have imported many nootropics, piracetam included, from this site. Packages arrive (typically) within a 10 day period, plain and brown in appearance.
site:
http://antiaging-systems.com/
The company is both respectable and reliable and I have never had a package confiscated or detained by big brother.
If you choose this source, you will not be disappointed.
-Anon
PS. Read up on Vasopressin (now Desmopressin) and Cyprenil, these are 2 favorites of mine, for the described effects.
Cheers!
site:
http://antiaging-systems.com/
The company is both respectable and reliable and I have never had a package confiscated or detained by big brother.
If you choose this source, you will not be disappointed.
-Anon
PS. Read up on Vasopressin (now Desmopressin) and Cyprenil, these are 2 favorites of mine, for the described effects.
Cheers!
? | 9 months ago
Reply
Thanks for suggestions. In the interest of saving I went with Primaforce Piracetam powder for 19.99 and bought choline bitartrate for something like 5 bucks. Should arrive in about 5 days and will be
interesting to see what happens.
interesting to see what happens.
milestones | 9 months ago
Reply
Cool! I wish you the best with the experiment. If you would be willing, it would be interesting to get some feedback on what differences (if any) you note while using the combination.
Take Care!
-Anon
Take Care!
-Anon
? | 9 months ago
Reply
My Piracetam arrived today and I took my first "attack dose" today and could feel the effects after about an hour -- took around 6,000 mgs + 500 mg's choline and inosital. Good news is I felt the effects after about an hour.
The primary change I noticed was perceptual -- a shift in how I viewed the world. Mundane things became, I'd say, far more compelling. I seemed to take in the whole gestalt of the visual spatial field and yet still be able to pay individual attention to details. Usually I am fairly in my immersed in own world (a contemplative/platonic proclivity) with a litany of items bouncing in my head and I go in and out of paying attention to my thoughts and then back to my surroundings.
Yet, today, I felt my inward attention move out to the outside world in an unforced way and, while my contemplative nature remained in tact, I was somehow interested in external reality in a way that seemed intrinsic rather than a forced sense of interest.
Other (subjective) things to note:
I had no headaches or side effects thus far.
-- Good ability to stay focused.
-- No fatigue or being tired.
-- Controlled emotions.
-- No sense of creative improvements but rather as I explained, felt more of a perceptual shift in how I viewed reality. If anything, I felt less a stream of consciousness flow and greater sense of structure of how various objects were related in spatially.
In short, I very much like Piracetam thus far and will be taking it for a while; hopefully, there will be some sort of ongoing cumulative effect. I think the attention aspect may have been the main "placebo effect" from what I describe since I've been so aware that Piracetam is known for this. I
think onset of a visual acuity is harder to write off as a placebo.
The primary change I noticed was perceptual -- a shift in how I viewed the world. Mundane things became, I'd say, far more compelling. I seemed to take in the whole gestalt of the visual spatial field and yet still be able to pay individual attention to details. Usually I am fairly in my immersed in own world (a contemplative/platonic proclivity) with a litany of items bouncing in my head and I go in and out of paying attention to my thoughts and then back to my surroundings.
Yet, today, I felt my inward attention move out to the outside world in an unforced way and, while my contemplative nature remained in tact, I was somehow interested in external reality in a way that seemed intrinsic rather than a forced sense of interest.
Other (subjective) things to note:
I had no headaches or side effects thus far.
-- Good ability to stay focused.
-- No fatigue or being tired.
-- Controlled emotions.
-- No sense of creative improvements but rather as I explained, felt more of a perceptual shift in how I viewed reality. If anything, I felt less a stream of consciousness flow and greater sense of structure of how various objects were related in spatially.
In short, I very much like Piracetam thus far and will be taking it for a while; hopefully, there will be some sort of ongoing cumulative effect. I think the attention aspect may have been the main "placebo effect" from what I describe since I've been so aware that Piracetam is known for this. I
think onset of a visual acuity is harder to write off as a placebo.
milestones | 9 months ago
Reply
Try the combination: Omega3 + Choline + Uridine (found in brewers yeast) + B vitamins (be careful on B6,it is toxic in large doses).
In combination with running (= oxygen) is rocks!
It are the building blocks of brain cells and all natural products.
Google it you will understand.
In combination with running (= oxygen) is rocks!
It are the building blocks of brain cells and all natural products.
Google it you will understand.
? | 8 months ago
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I reached my highest score at 9-back on dual while "under the influence" of Piracetam but it's a bit ridiculous to pinpoint this as the reason for my high score (or a reason for low scores at 7 back which were also influenced by piracetam)...so the drug may or may not have helped my working memory.
milestones | 9 months ago
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Like you, I recently started regular dosages of piracetam (in pill form). I also did not notice any significant gains (outside of the usual training improvements) on n-back training whilst using it, but I have noticed a 33.3% increase in my reading span: 6 before, 8 now. It may even go higher were I motivated enough to type that much, but seeing no study ever went higher than a 7 span (so far that I'm aware), I find myself in uncharted territory. In any case, it makes sense that my reading span would increase, considering the touted increase in verbalization granted by piracetam. Following this, it would appear piracetam has little to do with WM, but quite a bit with reading comprehension; reading with piracetam points to an augmentation in my ability to focus on passages to a significant degree (and not only on the RST).
argumzio | 9 months ago
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An informative .pdf article pointing to deficits in WM for the elderly as a function of increased susceptibility to interference rather than decreased capacity (RST is mentioned along with a modification thereto): https://pal.utdallas.edu/pubs/publication/download/980
? | 9 months ago
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Here's another link pointing to Proactive Interference, but this time it is in relation to Long-Term Working Memory: http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/harnad/Papers/Py104/ericsson.long.html
You'll have to scroll down to "Proactive Interference...". It is perhaps a good source on those with high RST scores. LT-WM in conjunction with low susceptibility to interference would likely constitute a possible explanation. Reading is a kind of skill, and LT-WM is non-generalizable, so Piracetam is possibly a help to this kind of WM which is probably not exercised on JB-esque n-back tasks.
You'll have to scroll down to "Proactive Interference...". It is perhaps a good source on those with high RST scores. LT-WM in conjunction with low susceptibility to interference would likely constitute a possible explanation. Reading is a kind of skill, and LT-WM is non-generalizable, so Piracetam is possibly a help to this kind of WM which is probably not exercised on JB-esque n-back tasks.
? | 9 months ago
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nothing prevents the learning of new things more than the knowledge of what has previously been learned...
piracetam's mode of action as a bio-defrag utility
piracetam's mode of action as a bio-defrag utility
Proust | 9 months ago
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My understanding, based on Jeff Hawkins' proposed theory of intelligence, would have to agree. But your insertion of "bio-defrag utility" only muddies this, for it is a kind of intuition about how the brain works that prevents us from really understanding it in accordance with its own terms, rather than in the terms of something else. I would conceive of Piracetam as something that makes the already-present processes more efficient, nothing more. What processes is what is at issue here, then.
? | 9 months ago
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It seems these people would agree with me and have the facility to specify what processes they believe to be effected: "We believe that the effect of the racetams is due to a potentiation of already present neurotransmission and that much evidence points in the direction of a modulated ion flux by, e.g., potentiated calcium influx through non-L-type voltage-dependent calcium channels, potentiated sodium influx through alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid receptor gated channels or voltage-dependent channels or decreases in potassium efflux. Effects on carrier mediated ion transport are also possible."
Found here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8061686?dopt=AbstractPlus
Found here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8061686?dopt=AbstractPlus
? | 8 months ago
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Well, there is an elementary elucidation. Data from WM gets encoded into LTM, the efficiency of this process is largely dependent on 'plasticity'. If info is taking a longer time to move into LTM, it follows that the data will be kept in WM for a longer period. this can lead to interference, ect
Piracetam as advertised, seems to mimic a boost in plasticity, (improves membrane permeability, neuron excitability.. ACh levels) : if this augments encoding activity then it possibly results in less interference
"LT-WM is non-generalizable"
One's aptitude for acquiring such memory systems should indicate a certain kind of intelligence which is difficult to measure.
"your insertion of "bio-defrag utility" only muddies this"
I'm just a math/comp sci major who enjoys developing AI in his free time. Excuse me for liking to make ridiculous analogies involving hard drives. Also, I know how MY brain works, it is YOURS that is in question. And it is not so far fetched to assume that you are, indeed, a brainless automaton. the rest of society included :p
Piracetam as advertised, seems to mimic a boost in plasticity, (improves membrane permeability, neuron excitability.. ACh levels) : if this augments encoding activity then it possibly results in less interference
"LT-WM is non-generalizable"
One's aptitude for acquiring such memory systems should indicate a certain kind of intelligence which is difficult to measure.
"your insertion of "bio-defrag utility" only muddies this"
I'm just a math/comp sci major who enjoys developing AI in his free time. Excuse me for liking to make ridiculous analogies involving hard drives. Also, I know how MY brain works, it is YOURS that is in question. And it is not so far fetched to assume that you are, indeed, a brainless automaton. the rest of society included :p
Proust | 9 months ago
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"Individual nerve cells in the front part of the brain can hold traces of memories on their own for as long as a minute and possibly longer, researchers at UT Southwestern Medical Center have found."
http://www.physorg.com/news152114323.html
http://www.physorg.com/news152114323.html
Proust | 9 months ago
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I doubt that you know how your brain works. If you did, well, by golly you would have a Nobel Prize in your pocket.
At any rate, I didn't mean to touch a sore nerve, an obviously sensitive one.
I still stand-by what I said. Besides, an A.I. in my view would be a brainless automaton... irony of ironies.
At any rate, I didn't mean to touch a sore nerve, an obviously sensitive one.
I still stand-by what I said. Besides, an A.I. in my view would be a brainless automaton... irony of ironies.
? | 9 months ago
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hehe, i know how my 'mind' works, whether or not this knowledge is applicable to my 'brain' is up in the air. i was just being facetious, most everything i say is silly because i'm not smart enough to think up anything serious
Proust | 9 months ago
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I thought you were defusing any potentially malicious meaning with the ":p" but I wasn't absolutely sure. It's been a less than joyous day on my end...
In any case, are you so sure there is a clear distinction between mind and brain? I would be inclined to say they are one and the same, particularly insofar as the brain is functionally constituted to do blah blah blah. Since you mention you work on AI, I would highly recommend you look into the likes of Hawkins, his Numenta, and so forth, if you have not already. It's incredibly interesting.
In any case, are you so sure there is a clear distinction between mind and brain? I would be inclined to say they are one and the same, particularly insofar as the brain is functionally constituted to do blah blah blah. Since you mention you work on AI, I would highly recommend you look into the likes of Hawkins, his Numenta, and so forth, if you have not already. It's incredibly interesting.
? | 9 months ago
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prediction exists in an infinitesimal frame, chronicled, an outsider reinstated
continual death, a violent gasp of light, a frantic representation of system behavior, abruptly to slip away
continual death, a violent gasp of light, a frantic representation of system behavior, abruptly to slip away
Proust | 8 months ago
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Yeah. Psylocybin can do that. I see you've been taking notes from McKenna and maybe even Aleister Crowley.
[I kid. I kid.]
Numenta provides a toolkit (you must register there, though, which is free) for you to develop your own network using their proprietary HTM algorithm. There's also a demo.
All you programmers into AI shouldn't take this lightly. Same for you neuroscientists out there.
And, no, I'm not a sneak employed by Numenta to convince others. It would be nice to be paid for what I do..
[I kid. I kid.]
Numenta provides a toolkit (you must register there, though, which is free) for you to develop your own network using their proprietary HTM algorithm. There's also a demo.
All you programmers into AI shouldn't take this lightly. Same for you neuroscientists out there.
And, no, I'm not a sneak employed by Numenta to convince others. It would be nice to be paid for what I do..
? | 8 months ago
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what i say is an audible possibility, the mystification is my blunder, perhaps i'll know how to go about it someday. I use Numenta regularly, you're right, it is astonishing
Proust | 8 months ago
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? | 9 months ago
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I'm not sure about the effects of piracetam during long term supplementation
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a741442183
"No statistically significant changes in cell viability or number was observed at 0-7 mM Piracetam in both cell types, although at 70 mM cell viability in the L929 cell line was significantly reduced when compared with the control. Initial studies indicate that Piacetam is only toxic at concentrations greater than 70 mM; however, the effects of repeated dosages over long periods still need to be investigated. "
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a741442183
"No statistically significant changes in cell viability or number was observed at 0-7 mM Piracetam in both cell types, although at 70 mM cell viability in the L929 cell line was significantly reduced when compared with the control. Initial studies indicate that Piacetam is only toxic at concentrations greater than 70 mM; however, the effects of repeated dosages over long periods still need to be investigated. "
Proust | 9 months ago
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