The Brain Training Industry -- Wonderful, Hype, or both?
? | 3 years ago
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smoothboom | 3 years ago
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I find anything that enhances the blood flow in general has a positive effect on the brain function. Gingko Biloba works a treat, really boosted my concentration for the time i was taking it. Spicy foods or just cayenne pepper in a drink work great as well. Exercising helps (just do a few push ups a day - it makes a difference), and of course a diet full of vitamins and minerals. Zinc and Vitamin B complex have a lot of connections with brain functioning.
? | 3 years ago
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I've read that working memory is optimized when your level of dopamine is within a certain 'ideal/ balanced' range. So does this mean that low-dopamine ppl would benefit more from L-tyrosine and N-Acetyl Tyrosine than ppl who already have their dopamine level in the optimal range?
does anyone know about that? if yes, how can you measure your dopamine levels (or at least estimate them, by being aware and looking for certain signs) to optimize your working memory performance? how do you know when you reached your 'ideal/ balanced' dopamine level? any experiences/ expriments/ comments are very welcome.
does anyone know about that? if yes, how can you measure your dopamine levels (or at least estimate them, by being aware and looking for certain signs) to optimize your working memory performance? how do you know when you reached your 'ideal/ balanced' dopamine level? any experiences/ expriments/ comments are very welcome.
smoothboom | 3 years ago
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...and 5-HTP is sometimes used as a sleep aid/ anxiolitic (it works!).
any feedback about all this is welcome.
also, I recently tried omega3 fish oil, and I find it's great. the only problem is the toxins they contain--all brands, even the cleanest ones, seem to still have some amount of PBCs and dioxins (most toxic man-made chemicals), and a lot of them still have heavy metals. ... so did anyone hear about a brand of fish oil that has no toxins at all? not detectable and third party tested? looking forward to that. it's hard (impossible?) to compare the amounts of toxins between brands of fish oil from web searches (and it varies from batch to batch). am I too paranoied?
If anyone has any other nootropic hints/ suggestions, please write.
any feedback about all this is welcome.
also, I recently tried omega3 fish oil, and I find it's great. the only problem is the toxins they contain--all brands, even the cleanest ones, seem to still have some amount of PBCs and dioxins (most toxic man-made chemicals), and a lot of them still have heavy metals. ... so did anyone hear about a brand of fish oil that has no toxins at all? not detectable and third party tested? looking forward to that. it's hard (impossible?) to compare the amounts of toxins between brands of fish oil from web searches (and it varies from batch to batch). am I too paranoied?
If anyone has any other nootropic hints/ suggestions, please write.
smoothboom | 3 years ago
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? | 3 years ago
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I wouldn't bother with phenylalanine, tyrosine, or levodopa. Those aren't going to do much if anything. And in the case of levodopa, I believe it is metabolized into 6-hydroxydopamine which is extremely toxic to the dopamine-producing neurons within the substantia nigra, meaning that if you used it chronically you might develop parkinsonianism (which is ironic because levodopa is one of the first-line treatments for Parkinson's disease). (The other problem is that, without a peripherally acting aromatic l-amino acid decarboxylase inhibitor, such as carbidopa, the majority of the levodopa will be converted into dopamine outside of the brain (and dopamine can not cross the blood brain barrier.))
There exist catechol-O-methyl transferase inhibitors, some of which are over-the-counter (although the evidence supporting the predication that these OTC substances really are COMT inhibitors isn't particularly trustworthy). One such substance is Quercetin, which can be purchased in almost any health food store.
Then there are irreversible selective inhibitors of monoamine oxidase type B, such as selegiline and rasagiline. MAO type B is one of the main enzymes which is responsible for metabolizing dopamine, other noteworthies being dopamine beta hydroxylase, MAO type A, and COMT.
Care should be taken when using selegiline (and possibly rasagiline) because in higher doses it inhibits significant quantities of MAO-A, which is responsible for catabolism of norepinephrine and epinephrine. If you were to unwittingly ingest tyramine or some other adrenergic/noradrenergic substance, having taken an MAO-A inhibiting dose of selegiline, you could have a hypertensive crisis, which could in turn cause a heart attack or stroke, embolic or haemorrhagic.
As you may have read, if you have at least one copy of the methionine-containing polymorphism of the COMT gene, taking anything that increases dopamine levels could make you extremely anxious or reduce your working memory capacity.
I would advise that you tread with extreme caution. I've almost killed myself 4 times or more mixing beta-phenylethylamine with selegiline. I just can't stop taking it because I'm hopelessly addicted (and I've not been using it very long!). Enzyme inhibitors are not substances which one should mess around with lightly, unless one do not fear death or disability.
There exist catechol-O-methyl transferase inhibitors, some of which are over-the-counter (although the evidence supporting the predication that these OTC substances really are COMT inhibitors isn't particularly trustworthy). One such substance is Quercetin, which can be purchased in almost any health food store.
Then there are irreversible selective inhibitors of monoamine oxidase type B, such as selegiline and rasagiline. MAO type B is one of the main enzymes which is responsible for metabolizing dopamine, other noteworthies being dopamine beta hydroxylase, MAO type A, and COMT.
Care should be taken when using selegiline (and possibly rasagiline) because in higher doses it inhibits significant quantities of MAO-A, which is responsible for catabolism of norepinephrine and epinephrine. If you were to unwittingly ingest tyramine or some other adrenergic/noradrenergic substance, having taken an MAO-A inhibiting dose of selegiline, you could have a hypertensive crisis, which could in turn cause a heart attack or stroke, embolic or haemorrhagic.
As you may have read, if you have at least one copy of the methionine-containing polymorphism of the COMT gene, taking anything that increases dopamine levels could make you extremely anxious or reduce your working memory capacity.
I would advise that you tread with extreme caution. I've almost killed myself 4 times or more mixing beta-phenylethylamine with selegiline. I just can't stop taking it because I'm hopelessly addicted (and I've not been using it very long!). Enzyme inhibitors are not substances which one should mess around with lightly, unless one do not fear death or disability.
? | 3 years ago
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"mixing beta-phenylethylamine with selegiline"
be careful with that one.
treading on some very thin ice, uncharted.
be careful with that one.
treading on some very thin ice, uncharted.
medicalstudent | 3 years ago
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Ok thanks for the infos. I just want to highlight that the pdf I posted is ment for practitioners, the protocol seems to already be used in over 900 clinics, has been clinically tested on 1607 persons, and has been tested/ is used on young children, without any side effect. it seems that neurotransmitter precursors nutrional supplementation is not harmful (been used for over 20 years anyway) and indeed does not cross the BBB (just as tyrosine and dopamine found in bananas don't) (...unless the brain decides to build/make its own dopamine with the supplements, when needed). you can avoid certain side effects especially if you follow their protocol. If you have time to quickly read that pdf, I'd be more than happy to get your feedback about it, since you seem to have great knowledge about neurotransmitters and bio chemistry. thank you!
here is the site I picked that pdf from:
http://www.neuroassist.com/default.htm
here is the site I picked that pdf from:
http://www.neuroassist.com/default.htm
smoothboom | 3 years ago
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Ok I found this: (really interesting)
http://www.neuroassist.com/NeuroCatalog122007.pdf
it seems that taking neurotransmitter precursors will enhance the mental performance and overall well being of ppl who are chronically depleted in these neurotransmitters (because of: disease eg ADD, depression, parkinson's, etc, or prolonged stress)
Basically, according to these researchers (they came up with a whole protocol--they explain it to doctors in that pdf), you have to take both 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine in a weight ratio of 1 to 10 (also with folate and cysteine and selenium) starting at about 50mg to 500mg, and gradually elevate your dose every week until you notice that your symptoms (lack of concentration etc etc) disappear and/or you reach an optimal mental performance (I guess you can take your daily n-back performance as a measure). apparently there are litterally no side effects to that treatment.
But this is for ppl who are chronically depleted in neurotransmitter precursors (ADD, stressed out, depressed, etc.) ...I wonder if normal ppl can benefit from that treatment too. it seems like it. we get natural dopamine boost occasionally. why not induce them when needed? besides that, I think a lot of ppl are at least partially depleted in certain precursors, because stress and neurotoxins are high today.
I think some ppl use L-tyrosine alone as a coffee/ mild stimulant. but I know some ppl do not get any effect when taking some L-tyrosine.
http://www.neuroassist.com/NeuroCatalog122007.pdf
it seems that taking neurotransmitter precursors will enhance the mental performance and overall well being of ppl who are chronically depleted in these neurotransmitters (because of: disease eg ADD, depression, parkinson's, etc, or prolonged stress)
Basically, according to these researchers (they came up with a whole protocol--they explain it to doctors in that pdf), you have to take both 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine in a weight ratio of 1 to 10 (also with folate and cysteine and selenium) starting at about 50mg to 500mg, and gradually elevate your dose every week until you notice that your symptoms (lack of concentration etc etc) disappear and/or you reach an optimal mental performance (I guess you can take your daily n-back performance as a measure). apparently there are litterally no side effects to that treatment.
But this is for ppl who are chronically depleted in neurotransmitter precursors (ADD, stressed out, depressed, etc.) ...I wonder if normal ppl can benefit from that treatment too. it seems like it. we get natural dopamine boost occasionally. why not induce them when needed? besides that, I think a lot of ppl are at least partially depleted in certain precursors, because stress and neurotoxins are high today.
I think some ppl use L-tyrosine alone as a coffee/ mild stimulant. but I know some ppl do not get any effect when taking some L-tyrosine.
smoothboom | 3 years ago
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never heard of l-tyrosine elevating dopamine in the frontal cortex
precursor loading wont do too much here.
your optimal level will depend, in large part, on your COMT genotype (this breaks down dopamine in the PFC)
without going to the lab, your best estimate will be your n-back performance
precursor loading wont do too much here.
your optimal level will depend, in large part, on your COMT genotype (this breaks down dopamine in the PFC)
without going to the lab, your best estimate will be your n-back performance
medicalstudent | 3 years ago
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Physiol Behav. 2007 Nov 23;92(4):575-82. Epub 2007 May 22.Click here to read Links
Tyrosine supplementation mitigates working memory decrements during cold exposure.
Mahoney CR, Castellani J, Kramer FM, Young A, Lieberman HR.
US Army Soldier Research, Development and Engineering Center, Kansas Street, Natick, MA 01760-5020, USA. caroline.mahoney@natick.army.mil
In rats, dietary supplementation with the amino acid tyrosine (TYR) prevents depletion of central catecholamines observed during acute environmental stress. Concomitant changes in the animals' behavioral responses to stress suggest that TYR might have similar effects on central catecholamines and cognition in humans exposed to environmental stress. This study aimed to determine if severe cold exposure impairs human cognition and if dietary supplementation with TYR would ameliorate such deficits. Volunteers (N=19) completed three test sessions on different days (35 degrees C control/placebo, approximately 10 degrees C/placebo, approximately 10 degrees C/TYR) using a double-blind, within subjects design. During each session, volunteers completed two 90-minute water immersions and consumed a food bar (150 mg/kg TYR or placebo) before each immersion (total TYR 300 mg/kg). Cognitive performance, mood, and salivary cortisol were assessed. Cortisol was elevated in the cold (p
Tyrosine supplementation mitigates working memory decrements during cold exposure.
Mahoney CR, Castellani J, Kramer FM, Young A, Lieberman HR.
US Army Soldier Research, Development and Engineering Center, Kansas Street, Natick, MA 01760-5020, USA. caroline.mahoney@natick.army.mil
In rats, dietary supplementation with the amino acid tyrosine (TYR) prevents depletion of central catecholamines observed during acute environmental stress. Concomitant changes in the animals' behavioral responses to stress suggest that TYR might have similar effects on central catecholamines and cognition in humans exposed to environmental stress. This study aimed to determine if severe cold exposure impairs human cognition and if dietary supplementation with TYR would ameliorate such deficits. Volunteers (N=19) completed three test sessions on different days (35 degrees C control/placebo, approximately 10 degrees C/placebo, approximately 10 degrees C/TYR) using a double-blind, within subjects design. During each session, volunteers completed two 90-minute water immersions and consumed a food bar (150 mg/kg TYR or placebo) before each immersion (total TYR 300 mg/kg). Cognitive performance, mood, and salivary cortisol were assessed. Cortisol was elevated in the cold (p
medicalstudent | 3 years ago
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What you say is true about COMT (a pretty informative article): http://www.pnas.org/content/98/12/6917.full
As for tyrosine, I think it is more along the lines of "provide more, make more", where more rudimentary compounds are swept into the process of making the brain's needed neurochemicals.
Here's a discussion old-fashioned googling turned up:
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=23668
As for tyrosine, I think it is more along the lines of "provide more, make more", where more rudimentary compounds are swept into the process of making the brain's needed neurochemicals.
Here's a discussion old-fashioned googling turned up:
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=23668
? | 3 years ago
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nback training increases dopamine receptor density.....could dopamine nootropics like tyrosine be a good synergy for cognition. Could more dopamine receptors + more dopamine = better cognition?
jimbob | 3 years ago
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training changes dopamine receptor binding capacity; in some subjects it increased it, in others it decreased it
it seems to "normalize" it depending on the person
the main point is that the dopaminergic system underlying WM performance has plasticity
it seems to "normalize" it depending on the person
the main point is that the dopaminergic system underlying WM performance has plasticity
medicalstudent | 3 years ago
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N-Acetyl Tyrosine is far better. It's water-soluble which permits more efficient ingestion by the body. I only take it on occasion, such as when I am tired, to give me that extra boost. Otherwise, it's too much for me. I become extremely irritable with prolonged use.
? | 3 years ago
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The Brain Training Industry -- Wonderful, Hype, or both?
What are some of the best things people have done here regarding brain training?
The best brain training to do I think are following:
-Dual N-back
-Meditation/focus exercises
-Puzzle books/online Puzzle games or IQ tests (though I don't pay much attention to the results).
-Physical exercise (I'm bad with this).
- Eating right.
-Traditional education; books that are worth the paper they're written on.
Things I'm far less sold on but still play around with:
- Elementary Cognitive Task training (whether in game form or bare bones); paying subscription and software loses me. The site offers great free metrics but not sure that training will do much to improve cognition.
That said, I think that what's offered here is likely equivalent to the benefit you'd get elsewhere paying a monthly fee or buying software.
--Brainwave entrainment. I've read the literature but I'm still very wary of the claims. Might work with the extremely ADD group, though.
-- Nootropic supplements.
--Any be a genius book or e-book written by intelligent people who have whipped together some past philosophies into 'tap your subconscious' type of offerings. Some of this stuff is interesting but then the rehash factor of historical gurus is high. But so is ignorance.
All in all, I think a billion dollar con job is afoot, with the plastic brain serving as sizzle for that other piece of plastic in one's wallet. I realize that with the baby boomers scared of cognitive decline this is a hot time to hype this stuff. And I also realize there are some amazing scientists backing many of these brain sites such as Michael Merzenich at Posit Science; but I
think, as a professional con artist who has defrauded a
good many people in his life, that all this shit should be free! I'm somewhat kidding about conning people ;-)
And I think most of what's good to do is free or cheap or pretty much common sense lifestyle stuff. But, if I am overlooking something, someone let me know...
The best brain training to do I think are following:
-Dual N-back
-Meditation/focus exercises
-Puzzle books/online Puzzle games or IQ tests (though I don't pay much attention to the results).
-Physical exercise (I'm bad with this).
- Eating right.
-Traditional education; books that are worth the paper they're written on.
Things I'm far less sold on but still play around with:
- Elementary Cognitive Task training (whether in game form or bare bones); paying subscription and software loses me. The site offers great free metrics but not sure that training will do much to improve cognition.
That said, I think that what's offered here is likely equivalent to the benefit you'd get elsewhere paying a monthly fee or buying software.
--Brainwave entrainment. I've read the literature but I'm still very wary of the claims. Might work with the extremely ADD group, though.
-- Nootropic supplements.
--Any be a genius book or e-book written by intelligent people who have whipped together some past philosophies into 'tap your subconscious' type of offerings. Some of this stuff is interesting but then the rehash factor of historical gurus is high. But so is ignorance.
All in all, I think a billion dollar con job is afoot, with the plastic brain serving as sizzle for that other piece of plastic in one's wallet. I realize that with the baby boomers scared of cognitive decline this is a hot time to hype this stuff. And I also realize there are some amazing scientists backing many of these brain sites such as Michael Merzenich at Posit Science; but I
think, as a professional con artist who has defrauded a
good many people in his life, that all this shit should be free! I'm somewhat kidding about conning people ;-)
And I think most of what's good to do is free or cheap or pretty much common sense lifestyle stuff. But, if I am overlooking something, someone let me know...
milestones | 3 years ago
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? | 3 years ago
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milestones | 3 years ago
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Better yet, high powered "image streaming" might be an effective way to increase IQ. Much of what is described for the masses by Win Wenger tho, is too lightweight for raising gifted level IQ's to that which is a clip or two higher. It might work for those at average or closer to average ability levels, simply because what's being turned on is something in one's own mind other than television.
I think this review on Amazon by "FSC729" offers what I think is sage advice on how to upgrade Wenger's technique for brilliant people who want to be even more brilliant: I have not tried what this author suggests but I'm going to try to figure out how to apply it....the following is an Amazon.com review of "The Einstein Factor" --
"Hello everyone, I truly believe that you can raise you IQ but it requires a little more work than Mr. Wenger suggests. His book I think is very important for it suggests a method that if used correctly may help people increase their IQ. Here is my method:
1. Obtain a book named "How to Solve It" by George Polya (ISBN 0691023565), it contains great advice on how to go about solving nearly any type of problem, the ideas are a little abstract and sometimes difficult to apply. Don't just skim the book, do every single problem in the book.
2. Obtain a book named "The Art and Craft of Problem Solving" by Paul Zeitz (ISBN 0471135712), this is the best book on problem solving. It will teach you how to think so you can solve nearly any type of problem. Don't just skim the book, do every single problem in the book.
3. After you have gone through those two books, obtain a book named "Giant Book of Mensa Mind Challenges" (ISBN 1402710496). Solve every single problem in the book, go through the problems until you can solve any variation of the problems in a reasonable amount of time.
4. Use Mr. Wengers image streaming technique, but instead of thinking of random "virtual worlds" in your head, focus on a Mensa problem and image stream your manipulation of its solution in your head. Do this until you can solve nearly any Mensa problem completely in your head never opening your eyes and writing something down." .
The only thing I would add to this is that there are of course other problems one can do other than from the texts the author suggests. The puzzles of Martin Gardner/Ron Hoeflin come to mind.
To work out the problem means also needing to memorize it, so that WM is taxed along with the creative visualization process. I think this writer is on the right path; that one needs to find their own process but not rely on various vague visions that flit across the mind's eye. Image streaming is a brilliant technique, but it can very easily devolve into a flaky spitfire of images if one doesn't have a very specific problem or idea to work with to constrain unruly creative flow.
I think this review on Amazon by "FSC729" offers what I think is sage advice on how to upgrade Wenger's technique for brilliant people who want to be even more brilliant: I have not tried what this author suggests but I'm going to try to figure out how to apply it....the following is an Amazon.com review of "The Einstein Factor" --
"Hello everyone, I truly believe that you can raise you IQ but it requires a little more work than Mr. Wenger suggests. His book I think is very important for it suggests a method that if used correctly may help people increase their IQ. Here is my method:
1. Obtain a book named "How to Solve It" by George Polya (ISBN 0691023565), it contains great advice on how to go about solving nearly any type of problem, the ideas are a little abstract and sometimes difficult to apply. Don't just skim the book, do every single problem in the book.
2. Obtain a book named "The Art and Craft of Problem Solving" by Paul Zeitz (ISBN 0471135712), this is the best book on problem solving. It will teach you how to think so you can solve nearly any type of problem. Don't just skim the book, do every single problem in the book.
3. After you have gone through those two books, obtain a book named "Giant Book of Mensa Mind Challenges" (ISBN 1402710496). Solve every single problem in the book, go through the problems until you can solve any variation of the problems in a reasonable amount of time.
4. Use Mr. Wengers image streaming technique, but instead of thinking of random "virtual worlds" in your head, focus on a Mensa problem and image stream your manipulation of its solution in your head. Do this until you can solve nearly any Mensa problem completely in your head never opening your eyes and writing something down." .
The only thing I would add to this is that there are of course other problems one can do other than from the texts the author suggests. The puzzles of Martin Gardner/Ron Hoeflin come to mind.
To work out the problem means also needing to memorize it, so that WM is taxed along with the creative visualization process. I think this writer is on the right path; that one needs to find their own process but not rely on various vague visions that flit across the mind's eye. Image streaming is a brilliant technique, but it can very easily devolve into a flaky spitfire of images if one doesn't have a very specific problem or idea to work with to constrain unruly creative flow.
milestones | 3 years ago
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Thanks for the 2 lists Milestone. I'll check out these problem-solving books! (have you tried them? and if yes did you notice results?)
also what online puzzle games do you use/ think are best?
I feel that today the best way to increase mental performance (besides DNB, and sleep/exercise/eat right) might be nootropics... what do you think? do you use any?
other than that, I've heard that you can make digital brain implants. I know it sounds sci-fi, but with nanotechs don't you think we'll be able to do that soon? I think it's already possible. I can't wait lol. please send any info about this.
if anyone has time to answer at least some of these questions it's really appreciated.
I'm pretty sure in the very near future increasing intelligence will become a big market. it's just so fun/useful and the results I get only with DNB are substantial and really worth the time/energy. I want more; I really look forward to nootropics and brain implants, I think that's the 2 ways we're more likely to increase intelligence substantially.
we're probably going to become half robots sooner than we think.
also what online puzzle games do you use/ think are best?
I feel that today the best way to increase mental performance (besides DNB, and sleep/exercise/eat right) might be nootropics... what do you think? do you use any?
other than that, I've heard that you can make digital brain implants. I know it sounds sci-fi, but with nanotechs don't you think we'll be able to do that soon? I think it's already possible. I can't wait lol. please send any info about this.
if anyone has time to answer at least some of these questions it's really appreciated.
I'm pretty sure in the very near future increasing intelligence will become a big market. it's just so fun/useful and the results I get only with DNB are substantial and really worth the time/energy. I want more; I really look forward to nootropics and brain implants, I think that's the 2 ways we're more likely to increase intelligence substantially.
we're probably going to become half robots sooner than we think.
smoothboom | 3 years ago
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Well, the Polya book is so old (from 1940's) that most of what he describes has been assimilated into most common text books and math prep guides and even the self help idea-thieves. But it is interesting to get to the source. It is helpful, despite it being old news.
As for nootropics, I haven't tried anything other than Gingko Biloba or pills that blend in other herbs. I'd be interested to try Piracetam
(along with the suggested choline)though I would not expect that much from it. On a lark, I did try colloid gold recently and I tried it for a month but found no perceived mental benefit except that certain body aches and pains seemed to subside. Still, it's very likely I just had a good month without sciatic pain which I get hit with intermittently or that there was a sanguine placebo element involved to keep the pain at bay.
As for puzzles, I don't know -- anything to keep the brain active is fine. Learning anything new is a good thing to do probably as much as puzzles
since there is some value to having knowledge or
a skill that can be applied to real life. To paraphrase a President of Mensa, puzzles become a sort of mental masturbation for bright people that tend not to consummate in optimal fashion. While it's good to keep fluid problem solving abilities in good shape for that sake alone -- as the dual n-back does -- it's also important to invest the fluid abilities into crystallized know-how. Arguably, too, this can be worthless as well: i.e. accumulating vast funds of trivia.
For fluid intelligence, my focus now is on dual n back and image streaming. One is mechanical & in a box (literally) the other is completely out
there (quasi-virtual reality). I don't expect the
latter to boost cognition, or improve intellect,
but it might help with a controlled imagination
that is valuable to creativity. For now my image
streaming will not have convergent thinking to it
such as streaming solutions to problems, but as I
get more advanced with visualizations in months ahead, perhaps I will add more rigor on to it.
As for brain implants, I'll pass on that if it means being blinded by my own intellect -- this is paradoxical, but you see it with some Spock types even sans implant. I'm not that obsessed with intelligence to the point where I'd really want something like that. Like everyone else, I'd
like to be smarter but only in a holistic sense.
As for nootropics, I haven't tried anything other than Gingko Biloba or pills that blend in other herbs. I'd be interested to try Piracetam
(along with the suggested choline)though I would not expect that much from it. On a lark, I did try colloid gold recently and I tried it for a month but found no perceived mental benefit except that certain body aches and pains seemed to subside. Still, it's very likely I just had a good month without sciatic pain which I get hit with intermittently or that there was a sanguine placebo element involved to keep the pain at bay.
As for puzzles, I don't know -- anything to keep the brain active is fine. Learning anything new is a good thing to do probably as much as puzzles
since there is some value to having knowledge or
a skill that can be applied to real life. To paraphrase a President of Mensa, puzzles become a sort of mental masturbation for bright people that tend not to consummate in optimal fashion. While it's good to keep fluid problem solving abilities in good shape for that sake alone -- as the dual n-back does -- it's also important to invest the fluid abilities into crystallized know-how. Arguably, too, this can be worthless as well: i.e. accumulating vast funds of trivia.
For fluid intelligence, my focus now is on dual n back and image streaming. One is mechanical & in a box (literally) the other is completely out
there (quasi-virtual reality). I don't expect the
latter to boost cognition, or improve intellect,
but it might help with a controlled imagination
that is valuable to creativity. For now my image
streaming will not have convergent thinking to it
such as streaming solutions to problems, but as I
get more advanced with visualizations in months ahead, perhaps I will add more rigor on to it.
As for brain implants, I'll pass on that if it means being blinded by my own intellect -- this is paradoxical, but you see it with some Spock types even sans implant. I'm not that obsessed with intelligence to the point where I'd really want something like that. Like everyone else, I'd
like to be smarter but only in a holistic sense.
milestones | 3 years ago
Reply
"Will designer brains divide humanity?"
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227083.700-will-designer-brains-divide-humanity.html?full=true&print=true
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227083.700-will-designer-brains-divide-humanity.html?full=true&print=true
? | 3 years ago
Reply
wow! so intersting. it really echoed what I was thinking: we need affordable brain enhancement technologies as soon as possible, and accessible to all (cheap).
I'm speculating that this would be very beneficial to the world in general, more than ppl would tend to think spontaneously. ppl are usually afraid that brain implants could be a factor of exclusion and eugenics. but if everyone can access brain implants, I think that we would all mutually benefit from it. we would benefit from other ppl being more intelligent around us. better products, better management, better sustainability (pop. capacity of earth increased), ppl more careful, more innovations, etc. no?
I don't think intelligence is correlated with being mean. most of the time, cooperation is a rational choice, and violence/exclusion is usually the result of impulsivity. maybe it's not that simple.
maybe that governments will not get elected without promising universal access to some kind of minimal brain enhancement? besides, if shown to work and be safe, everyone will want brain implants--this will create a huge market just like for cell phones. that's a good reason to think that such technologies will become cheap and that everyone will be able to access at least minimal brain enhancement.
if you have time to read the comment I just posted in "good cook", please answer/comment. I think another big thing next to Aubrey de Grey's cures for aging will be brain enhancement techs. any more links?
I'm speculating that this would be very beneficial to the world in general, more than ppl would tend to think spontaneously. ppl are usually afraid that brain implants could be a factor of exclusion and eugenics. but if everyone can access brain implants, I think that we would all mutually benefit from it. we would benefit from other ppl being more intelligent around us. better products, better management, better sustainability (pop. capacity of earth increased), ppl more careful, more innovations, etc. no?
I don't think intelligence is correlated with being mean. most of the time, cooperation is a rational choice, and violence/exclusion is usually the result of impulsivity. maybe it's not that simple.
maybe that governments will not get elected without promising universal access to some kind of minimal brain enhancement? besides, if shown to work and be safe, everyone will want brain implants--this will create a huge market just like for cell phones. that's a good reason to think that such technologies will become cheap and that everyone will be able to access at least minimal brain enhancement.
if you have time to read the comment I just posted in "good cook", please answer/comment. I think another big thing next to Aubrey de Grey's cures for aging will be brain enhancement techs. any more links?
smoothboom | 3 years ago
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I think it's still far off. Kurtzweil is being ambitious with 2045; probably sometime in 22nd century will something like this come into play.
Some technical considerations, though: can one just work to artificially aggrandize prefrontal cortex and ignore other non-cortical areas of the brain? Why not boost the amygdyla/limbic system along with it? Or is the idea just to reduce our pugnacious tendencies so as to ratiocinate better.
Btw The girl in the picture with her hands on the brain looks like Diane Keaton rubbing the Orb in Woody Allen's "Sleeper" -- a futuristic comedy set in the 22nd Century, which is possibly when things shake up.
Some technical considerations, though: can one just work to artificially aggrandize prefrontal cortex and ignore other non-cortical areas of the brain? Why not boost the amygdyla/limbic system along with it? Or is the idea just to reduce our pugnacious tendencies so as to ratiocinate better.
Btw The girl in the picture with her hands on the brain looks like Diane Keaton rubbing the Orb in Woody Allen's "Sleeper" -- a futuristic comedy set in the 22nd Century, which is possibly when things shake up.
milestones | 3 years ago
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Given that there are so many things that may confuse the assessment of the long-term effects of cognitive training, I think the most convincing evidence might lie in discovering immediate, possibly short-term benefits of particular kinds of training: for example, finding that hammering an aural W-M task like PASAT for ten minutes might improve comprehension of complex spoken language.
cevapcici | 3 years ago
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...might improve comprehension of complex spoken language for an hour afterwards.
The general public may be more amenable to the idea of a temporary, but certain, fix than a permanent, but uncertain one.
I gave the PASAT example because I can depend on PASAT skewing subsequent dual n-back scores towards auditory recall over visual recall - it seems to wake that part of me up.
The general public may be more amenable to the idea of a temporary, but certain, fix than a permanent, but uncertain one.
I gave the PASAT example because I can depend on PASAT skewing subsequent dual n-back scores towards auditory recall over visual recall - it seems to wake that part of me up.
cevapcici | 3 years ago
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That's an interesting point; it's worth doing.
Another way to put it is to attempt to work on increasing specific (s) abilities as opposed to general intelligence (g). It's been shown that s factors can be improved but that you have to keep practicing/honing them. Given the importance of S in the realm of achievement among gifted people, the importance of cultivating the S factor is a good idea as far as gaining edge in specific domains. Still, I think the beauty of the dual n back is that it works out certain S's and overall fluid G.
Another way to put it is to attempt to work on increasing specific (s) abilities as opposed to general intelligence (g). It's been shown that s factors can be improved but that you have to keep practicing/honing them. Given the importance of S in the realm of achievement among gifted people, the importance of cultivating the S factor is a good idea as far as gaining edge in specific domains. Still, I think the beauty of the dual n back is that it works out certain S's and overall fluid G.
milestones | 3 years ago
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