Making N-back EVEN MORE CHALLENGING
Making N-back EVEN MORE CHALLENGING
Ideas on how to make N-back More difficult, thus eliciting even stronger effects of training, hopefully.
reddisert | 3 years ago
Reply
Yep, I also had this idea (of playing with N = maximum depth) when I was starting to play DNB. I actually thought it would have been easier to play it that way (because you would not have to recall the exact order of events, but rather just respond to a feeling of familiarity).
Would it force one to play more intuitively? (without strategies?)
Well... right now I'm playing in my head and trying to imagine how hard it would be, and it doesn't look much harder than the actual DNB task. you just memorize the last chunk and respond irrespective of order. I don't think it would be harder (maybe easier? ...I occasionnaly make mistakes in the order so it would be one less thing to look for). it's just different. at least it would be a healthy variation to practice.
what do you think?
Would it force one to play more intuitively? (without strategies?)
Well... right now I'm playing in my head and trying to imagine how hard it would be, and it doesn't look much harder than the actual DNB task. you just memorize the last chunk and respond irrespective of order. I don't think it would be harder (maybe easier? ...I occasionnaly make mistakes in the order so it would be one less thing to look for). it's just different. at least it would be a healthy variation to practice.
what do you think?
? | 3 years ago
Reply
Idea: instead of having to compare the current "presentation" with the "presentation" from fixed N "presentations" ago, have a variable N with a fixed upper limit.
to explain, you would have the normal presentation stimulus of a location on the grid and a sound, but also the additional stimulus of a number (n) in the range of 1 through N, with N being the current max N-back level. the "n" level will be the level selected to compare to the current presentation, and "N" will be the maximum depth of "n".
I suppose that this would prompt those who play the game to not only remember and compare presentations at a depth of N, but also be able to actively use and manipulate all levels of presentations up to the presentation level of N.
to explain, you would have the normal presentation stimulus of a location on the grid and a sound, but also the additional stimulus of a number (n) in the range of 1 through N, with N being the current max N-back level. the "n" level will be the level selected to compare to the current presentation, and "N" will be the maximum depth of "n".
I suppose that this would prompt those who play the game to not only remember and compare presentations at a depth of N, but also be able to actively use and manipulate all levels of presentations up to the presentation level of N.
reddisert | 3 years ago
Reply
Well, I threw the idea at the guy who runs the Brain Workshop N-Back program, and he implemented an option for a Variable Dual N-back in the recent (v. 4.2) update for the program.
reddisert | 3 years ago
Reply
cognitivefun | 3 years ago
Reply
"also be able to actively use and manipulate all levels of presentations up to the presentation level of N."
This is good reasoning, and is where there "working" in "working memory" comes from. This will involve at least N-1 more comparisons per trial, and requires that you remember the exact order of the previously shown stimuli. It will probably decrease your n-back span by a bit. It's definitely worth trying!
cognitivefun | 3 years ago
Reply
actually, I believe it would increase your n-back, since you will be training the way you use your memory for the N-back in a new way, strengthening it. When you come back to the original N-back game where you consistently check N Presentations ago (as opposed to anything from 1 to N presentations, or n) you will probably be more capable.
There is only one way to find out, though.
There is only one way to find out, though.
reddisert | 3 years ago
Reply
"actually, I believe it would increase your n-back"
Oops, sorry for the confusion. In "decrease" I meant that your measured span for this task should be lower than what you would get on an "ordinary" n-back task. This is like how your memory span is lower on the reverse digit span task, compared to the forward DS.
cognitivefun | 3 years ago
Reply
medicalstudent | 3 years ago
Reply
